Freedom is dead in India, anyone can be arrested anytime and courts will not grant bail: Kapil Sibal

Senior lawyer and Rajya Sabha MP Kapil Sibal, in a recent interview to veteran journalist Nidhi Razdan, said that the Prevention of Money Laundering Act (PMLA) is being used as a means of oppression by the government.

They said, “PMLA is an instrument of oppression. Its as simple as that. This is the tool with which you terrorize people.”

When Razdan pointed out that the Prevention of Money Laundering Act, 2002 was implemented during the Congress rule when he was part of the party, Sibal replied that the laws were not brought with the intention to misuse them.

They said, “We may have brought PMLA but we never knew that PMLA could be used in this way and we never used it in that way. All laws are fine, this happens only because of misuse of laws.”

He regretted that PMLA is being continuously misused by the government to target opposition leaders.

They said, “Laws do not represent what we call justice. Justice is provided through the court system. Laws are misused to cause destruction, to settle scores and to send messages. You know that PMLA is being used against opposition leaders. Justice is served only when the court stands up and says you cannot do this. All this is happening now at the time of elections. In Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Rajasthan, West Bengal, Telangana, Orissa, you name it. In every state where there is opposition, you are facing the same problems.

They said, “What world are we living in? And we call ourselves the mother of democracy?”

Speaking on the increasing incidents of violence, hate speech and religious disharmony in the country, Sibal said,

“I can’t think of any other democratic country where this happens, boys in class are asked to slap a young boy because of his religion. What happened to that? Nothing happened. Someone driving And he attacks people, he gets bail. People on the road are told to say Jai Shri Ram otherwise we will beat you. Which court has taken cognizance of this? If Justice Bhagwati was here, he would have taken notice of this. Would have taken suo motu cognizance. What are we doing for our country? And why?”

When Razdan pointed out that despite Supreme Court directions to curb hate speech, it was still rampant, Sibal replied,

“People disregard the Supreme Court. They say we don’t care. If freedom dies in the hearts of men and women then no constitution, no court, no law can save it. This is what is happening.”

“Laws do not represent what we call justice. Justice is provided through the court system. Laws are misused to cause destruction, to settle scores and to send messages. You know that PMLA is being used against opposition leaders. Justice is served only when the court stands up and says you cannot do this. All this is happening now at the time of elections. In Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Rajasthan, West Bengal, Telangana, Orissa, you name it. In every state where there is opposition, you are facing the same problems.

He clearly said in the interview, “Freedom is dead in India. No Constitution, no law, no court can save it, because it is dead in the hearts of men and women in India including the courts.”

Asked whether the courts were doing enough to protect civil liberties, Sibal replied,

“The problem is that in an environment of this nature the court also goes with the flow. But some judges are extraordinary, they do whatever they can.”

Asked about the recent Supreme Court judgments upholding and strengthening the provisions of PMLA and UAPA, Sibal said,

“We talk about the rule of law, which is fundamental to democracy. But in reality there are only rules in this country, there is no law.”

Sibal expressed serious concern over the situation in the country and the misuse of these laws:

“I am very concerned and I am speaking today. Because the situation in our country today is that anyone can be arrested anytime and the courts will not grant you bail. Where are we going as a nation? How many times can you fight? Some people do not have the means to pay lawyers. Some of them are very poor and they are suffering. In such a situation, what do you do as a lawyer? I ask myself this question very clearly. Honestly I tell you, I know which court I will go to and what is going to happen. Because the mentality of every judge is different, some judges are generous and some judges do not listen to us. it’s just that.”

Razdan also asked Sibal about the recent News Click case, where the editor in chief has been arrested under UAPA following allegations of receiving funds for pro-China propaganda on the news portal. Sibal is representing the jailed journalist in the Delhi High Court and the Supreme Court.

Kapil Sibal said, “The argument is that you sold your shares at a premium and you should not have sold them at a premium, and the person who gave you the money is actually now living in China. He is a chartered accountant who approved the deal. What is the act of terror involved in all this? I do not understand. But of course the courts still don’t grant them bail.”

Razdan asked Sibal about the people associated with NewsClick, including contributors and office staff, who have been questioned by the police and whose devices have been seized without warrant.

He asked, “What happened to due process from just a legal standpoint?”

They said,”…It happens all the time. I mean it happens every day. You are talking about NewsClick, because you are a journalist and NewsClick is an institution in itself and you are very concerned about it. Every citizen working with the police in the country is suffering from this and no one says anything. Law and justice are two different things. You misuse the law and that is injustice. But law in itself does not represent justice. “

Razdan asked Sibal, “Are the police legally allowed to come and confiscate our devices?”

Sibal replied, “They can’t. What’s the point of the privacy ruling? That you can just go through someone’s mobile phone and check it? Some of these people don’t have any proof, so they come and take your phone. They confiscate it, then they go through your phone, then they find out something, then they start interrogating you about it. Without any paperwork it’s illegal. Even if there was paperwork they What’s the point of taking my phone and seeing all the intimate conversations of someone? What’s the point of letting someone look at my phone? You know in a way my phone represents my personality. You can do that by seizing it and moving through it. Destroying it. Then questioning me.”

Referring to the possibility of misuse of UAPA provisions by the government to stifle dissent, Sibal said that according to the new bill proposed to replace the Indian Penal Code (IPC), a broader definition has been given for “terrorist”.

They said, “Now under the new law do you know what is the definition of a terrorist? If you obstruct the supply of essential services then you are a terrorist. If you say something against the government, if you emotionally blame people, you are a terrorist. If you support someone, you are part of it.”

When asked about the bail plea of ​​Umar Khalid in a case under UAPA regarding Delhi riots, which is pending for more than 3 years, Sibal said that the matter is going to come up in the Supreme Court soon and he will take note of it. Don’t want to comment.

They said, “The court will decide.” Sibal is representing Khalid in the Supreme Court in his bail plea. There is no hope left in Supreme Court: Senior lawyer Kapil Sibal